karate.gr: 16 - General Political Issues

https://www.antenna.gr/Politics/article/4/980383/oli-i-synenteyxi-toy-antoni-samara-poy-metadothike-apokleistika-apo-ton-ant1-binteo-

 The entire interview with Antonis Samaras, broadcast exclusively by ANT1 (video)

What the former Prime Minister said about national issues, the tragedy in Tempi, the OPEKEPE scandal. His answer to the question of whether he will proceed with the establishment of a party.

(Karate.gr intervention: The types of questions also determine the sections of the interview, to which karate.gr gave titles!)

INTRODUCTION BY ANT1

In the interview that former Prime Minister Antonis Samaras gave to journalist Irena Argyri on October 31, 2025, and broadcast exclusively by ANT1, the former Prime Minister spoke in full on current political issues and opened his cards for his next moves.

At the beginning of the interview, Mr. Samaras thanked "the Greek people from the bottom of his heart for this wave of love and support that we are experiencing as a family", for the loss of his daughter Lena at the age of 34.

Commenting on the issue of the Tempi tragedy, he criticized the Government, describing the approach "towards the parents of these lost children" as wrong, referring specifically to the case of Panos Routsis.

The former Prime Minister criticized the government's handling of the economy, focusing on the high cost of energy and the decision not to reduce VAT. He added that "the purchasing power of Greek employees is the last in Europe, even lower than Bulgaria's".

Mr. Samaras, in response to a relevant question, looked back to the times of the memoranda and defended his decisions. He spoke about his relationship with Chancellor Merkel, whom he criticized for her stance towards Greece and for the proposal she made to him for Greece to leave the euro.

Mr. Samaras raised the tone on the issue of OPEKEPE, pointing his arrows at the Prime Minister personally, emphasizing, among other things, "When, Mr. Mitsotakis, you appoint someone as president whom YOUR minister, YOUR minister of agriculture, expels and you immediately take him as YOUR advisor for five years, until today, do you want to tell us that you still didn't know anything? And we should have learned this news from the European Prosecutor?"

A large part of the former Prime Minister's interview was occupied by his positions on national issues, which were also the reason or cause of his expulsion from ND, due to the strong criticism he exercises, as he said, of the government's handling. Mr. Samaras focused on Greek-Turkish relations, while the Minister of Foreign Affairs, George Gerapetritis, entered his "target range".

At another point in his interview, he declared himself "proud of the faction of Konstantinos Karamanlis, proud of the faction of Evangelos Averof" and argued that "this current ideological formation is no longer New Democracy. It has mutated".

Asked about his deletion, he launched an all-out attack on Mr. Mitsotakis, attributing full responsibility for what happened to him, as he “deleted one Prime Minister after another before the newspaper in which I had given this interview was even published. He was in a hurry. But for Mrs. Ferrari, Mr. “Frappe”, Mr. “Hasapis”, it took them weeks to decide on their own deletion” and added, “Mr. Mitsotakis, I’m sorry, is not fighting for the party. He is not even fighting for the party. He is fighting to keep his own regime.” At another point in his interview, he emphasized, "The problem is that Mitsotakis does not digest the right, the center-right, nor the history nor the base of New Democracy. That is why he has turned it into a hybrid of Semitic PASOK with blue color."

Mr. Samaras also referred to Mrs. Bakoyannis' positions, while regarding demographics, he stressed that "the solution cannot come with immigrants".

Of great interest is the answer given by Mr. Samaras to the controversial question, "whether he will proceed with the establishment of a party", which was asked at the end of the interview. Mr. Samaras left the possibility open, saying, among other things, "But I certainly still have within me a sense of national duty. So I weigh the whole situation with great care. I watch everything. What is happening inside and outside the Homeland. I will judge with composure. And when I make my decisions, whatever they may be, one way or another, I will explain them clearly and unambiguously to the only constant ally of my path, for almost 50 years: the Greek people. I owe it to them".

The full text of the interview with former Prime Minister Antonis Samaras

INTRODUCTION TO THE INTERVIEW:

Introduction: Ladies and gentlemen, today we have the special honor of speaking with a man, a politician, who to a very significant extent shaped what we would call the history of the post-coup period: Mr. Antonis Samaras.

Mr. Samaras, thank you very much for granting us this interview, especially at this time with all the discussion that is taking place around you and your political positions and movements. And we would like, if you do not object, to discuss everything in this interview, and the difficult ones, especially these.

Antonis Samaras: Thank you, I would also like to talk about everything.

Question: And before we begin the interview, we would like to express our sincere condolences on camera for the loss of your daughter, who, along with your attitude and your words at the funeral and your thanksgiving to God, shook all of Greece, without exaggeration.

Antonis Samaras: Thank you. And I, Georgia, and Kostas thank you from the bottom of my heart to the Greek people for this wave of love and support that we are experiencing as a family. It not only moved us deeply, but also supported us. And I say this with gratitude. As for the gift of God that you spoke of in our Orthodoxy, look, you always thank God. I also thanked Him, even if only for the 34 years that we had our Lena with us.

Question: If you don't mind, shall we begin the interview?

Antonis Samaras: Of course.

REGARDING TEMPI:

Question: Let's start with Tempi, one of the biggest issues that has occupied Greek news in recent years. And it was the reason for which the Greeks united in the most massive, most non-partisan demonstrations in modern history. And you recently took a position on the issue, supporting Panos Routsis in his request, which we finally saw was justified. We would like you to tell us about this issue, what is it in your opinion that united the Greeks?

Antonis Samaras: I have spoken about Tempi from the very beginning and at every opportunity. This is not the first time. And don't forget that this famous 717 agreement, which unfortunately did not materialized, it was my government that had brought it and voted for it. And in my speech, when the Tempi issue was discussed in Parliament, I said that the government's approach to the parents of these lost children is a huge mistake. It was and is an approach without a soul. And several times, I would say, without ethics. And I'm not saying this now, I've said it from the beginning. And I'm saying it as I feel it. I'm not saying it because of my Lena. It's a firm political and moral position of mine.

Okay, I won't hide from you that the loss of Lena is also an experiential situation that brings me even closer to these parents. It's human, of course, how each parent experiences the loss of their child. It's a personal matter. My family and I are deeply Christian, I believe in Orthodoxy, and that's how I approach Lena, Christianly. Other parents may not have the same faith or the same perception, and that's completely respectful.

But Greek civilization, from Priam and Achilles and from Creon and Antigone, has given birth to a universal human value, respect and honor for the dead. This value must be an absolute moral rule for everyone. Therefore, the ban on exhumation was a decision to annul paternity, a decision unnatural for our own morals and customs. They should not have played with this issue. Because when a father of a victim in Tempi is prevented from exhuming in order to learn about the death of his child, then the independence of justice ceases to be an institutional guarantee and becomes an instrument for excluding the citizen from his most important and sensitive rights.

So what united the Greeks in Tempi, you ask? The demand for justice, but also what unites us all, namely the “pride of the Greek”. That's why the Tempi and their handling hurt the Greek people. That's why these children became all of our children. If you want, each child became a symbol of the Greek family. And that's why the Tempi also carved our collective subconscious, and especially the subconscious of the new generation. This is my point of view.

ABOUT THE ECONOMY:

Question: Before we get to the purely political stuff, which most people expect to hear from you, let's move on to something that affects us in practice much more on a daily basis, which is the Economy. And you have the opportunity to answer us both in your capacity as a former prime minister, but also in your scientific capacity as an economist. So, what we, who are not experts on the subject, do not understand is how it is possible, so many years after the memoranda, when we are supposed to have overcome the crisis, that accuracy is increasing, that demands are increasing, but that our ability to respond to the economic demands of our lives is decreasing, and that we have now reached even below Bulgaria in terms of the ability to cope with expenses. What is going wrong?

Antonis Samaras: Look, everything starts from the cost. And the main cause of the cost in everything is energy. Our energy policy for me is completely wrong. The energy mix is ​​wrong. Even the energy stock exchange is wrong. Because it is structured incorrectly. Because it essentially locks in every moment at the highest price. And so who benefits? Profiteering. And beyond that, the government keeps VAT too high. Why? But so that the government can present income from surpluses and because high inflation favors the artificial reduction of debt in relation to GDP. Not the real debt, which is increasing and has now reached 362 billion. Remember in 2014, just before I left, I say this to make it clear, the debt had fallen to 317 (billion). And let me give you two examples. At first they gave incentives for investments in photovoltaics and small farmers.

Instead of crops, we all saw it, the fields were filled with machinery. And now they are being told to stop producing energy from renewable sources, because there is a surplus. But this surplus cannot be stored. I know people who call me from all over Greece and say, "I also had a field and I had put my own machine in my field. And they call me in the morning and tell me not to start it or to stop it." But in the meantime, the price of a kilowatt-hour is skyrocketing, among the highest in all of Europe. And I consider this unnatural and improbable. I read that the Commission is also threatening us with a fine because we have not aligned ourselves with the VAT directive. What does the directive say? It allows member states to apply reduced, even zero VAT on basic items, at basic points of purchase. And there is even special provision for small and medium-sized enterprises. But, even if no directive said so, doesn't the government see that VAT on our basic goods is unbearable, that the project won't work this way?

So they can, even with the approval of Europe, but they don't want to. And finally, let me tell you that unfortunately oligopolies have already formed in the economy. In energy, in supermarkets, in telecommunications, even in shipping. These are oligopolies everywhere, at the expense of small and medium-sized enterprises, that is, at the expense of the so-called middle class that no one talks about anymore. Let's call things by their right names

Question: So, if it were up to you, were you in government, what line would you follow in the economy?

Antonis Samaras: Look, clearly the creation of a low-cost productive economy. Because today our economy is based mainly on services, consumption, imports, funds. So I would like to see a financing from the state - through, be careful - a mixed investment fund. There is such a well-considered proposal, mainly for regional development. It is not enough, I mean, to absorb European funds. I repeat, the state also needs to participate in this fund.

Secondly, priority must be given to the agricultural sector, to what we call the food sector. Thirdly, we must recreate a strong industry that once existed in Greece. There are still strong units today, but our once powerful industry has been lost. I believe that the political leadership must protect Greek industries, their units, and not facilitate their takeover. In other words, we must operate within the framework of a "Greek capitalism".

Be careful, the indicators in the economy are not good at all. They do not show productive dynamism. I will talk to you with the recent Eurostat data, which I happened to have and studied. Our trade deficit has increased to 15% of GDP. The productivity - how much each person produces - of Greek labor in the last five years has shown the second largest decline in the Eurozone. And from the Recovery Fund, which expires next year, only 15 to 18 billion have been disbursed, compared to the 40 billion we had at our disposal. Will we manage to absorb the 20 billion in one year? I don't think so. And very little of this money was ultimately directed to small and medium-sized enterprises. Let's tell the truth. The market knows this.

And a big issue is our energy autonomy, but also energy export. And of course it will be done with drilling, as we had started the permits in my government in 2012 to 2015, and then they stopped them, declaring at the time that everyone was in favor of green development, as if we couldn't mine and export to the rest of Europe, which buys natural gas from Russia, from Qatar, etc. And when the "bogeyman" Trump finally came out, who said the famous "drill baby drill", you remember, they did a nice flip and remembered the mining in the plots that we had demarcated since 2014. Whatever it is! Fortunately, at least, that Chevron was interested. Europe must… listen, Europe itself must come to its senses regarding its energy policy, move to realism, follow what America is already doing today. Let me say it again: A very special period is coming. Anyone who does not produce their own food and their own energy will face enormous difficulties.

What is needed next, from what you ask me, is a digital redesign. Steps have certainly been taken. But I am talking about leaps that we need, with the participation of state bodies, such as universities, which have the best minds. Greece has the scientists and the capabilities to play a leading role in innovation and research, with an eye to the future, but not to the very distant future. Here, artificial intelligence is already in our lives, with its good and its bad sides. The state, the government, therefore, must turn to digital innovation, to put into practice what it promises for the digital revolution and artificial intelligence, but this requires alarm. We must be blunt about this. In a few years, everything will have changed. It is impossible for every Greek not to know what life will be like in a few years and what work every young child will be able to or should dream of doing.

And I would say, finally, that generous financial support is required for teachers and nursing staff. Education and health are not provided by teachers and nurses who live on the margins. These people need special attention. We must pay attention to them. I must emphasize and warn that, especially in the field of education, the education policy for the Greeks of the Greek Diaspora is wrong. Listen, only 0.47% of the Ministry's budget is available for the Greeks of the Diaspora. And so schools abroad are closing due to lack of resources, due to lack of support from the Greek state. While here, at home, they are unfortunately closing due to lack of children. And the result is that, sooner or later, the young people of our Diaspora will not be committed to the Greek educational process and therefore will be assimilated by foreign cultures. Do we want it? I don't want it, anyway. Hellenism is universal. The Greek Diaspora is a pillar for its survival, and I believe this very deeply.

CONTACT WITH CITIZENS:

Question: Since you mentioned citizens living on the margins, there is a large part of society that sees politicians as something far removed from them. This is the general feeling that they may talk, discuss, and show interest in society's problems, but citizens feel that this interest is not real. What do you attribute this gap between citizens and politicians to?

Antonis Samaras: We live in an era when people can no longer tolerate the shadow, the blur. People are asking for answers. They are not asking for communication techniques. They are not accepting any other leniency for wrongdoing. People are asking for responsibility. There is no freedom without responsibility. However, freedom, when managed by so-called saviors, risks turning into a tragedy. We do not need saviors. We need purpose and discipline in our purpose. Otherwise, we will continue to walk in the dark, in the shadows, as you like to call it. The world is running faster than politicians. I will tell you bluntly: The Metapolitetsi of the Metapolitetsi has already begun.

Question: So, let me dwell on the subject for a moment and ask about your personal contact with society. Do you have people in your environment who have financial problems, who have to see if they will pay the rent or the EFKA every month, who have to finish their salary on the 15th of the month and think about what they will do with the rest of the month? What is your contact with all this?

Antonis Samaras: But if you have no contact with this world, what are you doing in politics? I have had my phone number from the very beginning, I have never changed it. Ordinary people tell me anything that concerns them, but also my many close associates, if you like, are average wage earners. They have shared the problems with me over the years. I am in touch with the world, especially the world of toil. It is my type, it is my construction, I like to talk to them and listen to what they tell me. So I know, yes. And I will tell you with the data, if you want, and of Europe itself. In the first half of the year, the European Union, mind you, I am saying this for the common people, has already estimated that the purchasing power of Greek wage earners is the last in Europe, below even Bulgaria. And this is happening at a time when you have the government here celebrating its economic policy.

And of course, the first problem - I am not saying anything new, everyone is experiencing it - is accuracy. Since the 20th of the month, there has been a problem for the average wage earner. In supermarkets, prices are constantly increasing. And many phenomena are completely absurd. I'll give you a simple example: rice is sold from the field in 60 minutes, it comes out of the field in 60 minutes, and it often reaches the shelf for six times more in bulk and 10 times more in packaged form. I know very well what each person and each family is going through.

And what bothers me even more is that two young children who want to get on in life, to rent a house, to start a family, today cannot do so. Even if someone doesn't want to start a family, just to live, let's say, to live decently, they can't with these salaries and these prices. Many are at the limit. Believe me, there are many more at the limit than we think and than those who say they are at the limit. In other words, there is a modern invisible poverty, as well as an invisible, hidden homelessness. In such matters, state intervention is required, which unfortunately, many times due to a neoliberal perception of this government, is absent. And what the Prime Minister has told young people is certainly not a solution: “to live together so that things come to you cheaper”. This is not politics.

Likewise, we must not see this tourist model of ours repeated. Because it is not possible what is happening on our islands, that they are flooded with foreigners, and that Greeks cannot go there because they do not have enough money. We are close to turning our islands into Disneyland that foreigners can see.

Furthermore, debts are constantly increasing. Be careful, and this is very important. Over 4 million citizens have debts, and 90% of them owe less than 10,000 euros. So the emphasis of the state must be given to the rest, to the few who owe a lot. Let alone the overdue debts, those that are coming to an end, increased by 4.5 billion this year compared to last year. The market has dried up, the fez are inflating, households are having a very hard time, and private debt - hold on - has reached the astronomical amount of 112 billion euros. Greece has never had such a debt, private.

A LOOK BACK AT THE ERA OF MEMORANDA:

Question: Since you talked about debt, let's go back a little to the past, to the period of the Memoranda, which you led the government, and let's talk a little about the criticism that is being leveled at you on this issue. You were elected with anti-memorandum positions in the pre-election period, that is, with criticism of the memorandum signed by Papandreou. However, then, during your term, you signed the second Memorandum. And the criticism of this is also related to the reference to the so-called Zappia. We would like you to tell us now, after so many years, what is your personal assessment of this issue and how you respond to this criticism.

Antonis Samaras: Look, for me, those who say these things are completely irrelevant, or they are populists, or they have a very short memory. I am an economist and I have distinguished economist associates in my staff. So listen to the truth. On November 29, 2009, I was elected President of New Democracy. And from the very first moment, I called on Mr. Papandreou in Parliament to take measures. I had told him: “Take measures, we will support you.” Those were my exact words. George, instead, presented Greece as a Titanic and brought the first Memorandum. My staff and I analyzed this Memorandum. We put it down and it turned out to be completely wrong. It had economic, tangible, specific economic errors. Things that were completely miscalculated, like the famous multipliers.

When we saw this, the huge mistake, we made the “Zappion”. What was the Zappion? A very detailed analysis of the Memorandum and its mistakes, where we predicted with evidence that it could only bring incredible recession and poverty – I am talking about severe poverty. We were right. How were we right? First of all, the Troika itself and the responsible economist of the International Monetary Fund, the famous Blonsard, as well as the famous, in a bad sense famous, Mr. Thomsen, publicly admitted that their Memorandum was a mistake.

They admitted it too. So why do they blame me? Because I said no to so many taxes that we would have had otherwise? No to such cuts that they wanted to make? Because I predicted that with this wrong program the Greek economy would be completely brought to its knees without ever rising again? Because I did not vote for the mistake? Because I did not want the Homeland to be bound by this mistake, as unfortunately happened? That is, some people even today defend what the initiators of the Memorandum themselves admitted was a mistake? And they blame me and New Democracy for saying it and for fighting to avoid this mistake? Be careful, they are slandering Zappion, which revealed the problem, and not those who supported the program and implemented the program. And when the country collapsed because of this Memorandum, I and New Democracy then acted nationally and not party-wise.

And let me tell you straight: I could have called for direct elections in 2011 and come out on my own with ferocious percentages. To promise that I would abolish the Memoranda in order to do the backflip afterwards, as Mr. Tsipras did. I did not do that. Be careful, the country had collapsed. The space had collapsed. The space of the economy. The people suffered. Their income and pensions were violently cut. And at the same time, as we had said at Zappion, the economy was in disarray. But unfortunately the country had committed itself internationally to the Memorandum. In those dramatic hours, I put the national interest first, both from the party and from my personal interest. So we did a huge job of revising the economic policy of the Memorandum. We presented it publicly and to the lenders. This was Zappion 2. They accepted it. We convinced them. They corrected the mistakes. The debt haircut was done. And so the 2012-2015 government managed much faster to bring the country to the clearing.. A year and a half earlier than our lenders had predicted.

MEMORANDA AND MRS. MERKEL:

Question: Mrs. Merkel was a figure of the times for us at the time. What was your relationship with her?

Antonis Samaras: Make no mistake. If Merkel, at the time when, as I told you, we had come out into the clearing and even with a credit line of support that we had won, if Merkel had supported us at that time and not stumbled - I am talking about before the election of the President of the Republic - Greece would have avoided this whole adventure. Then Merkel played a bad game. Now it was Merkel or Schäuble, I don't care. But I don't forget that in 2012, at the beginning, at the worst time, Merkel suggested to me, in a tet a tete in her office in the Chancellery, that we exit the Euro as Greece until our economy is fixed. They wanted Greece to be sacrificed as an example to the rest. And I told her then - I repeat, we were both in her office - that I do not accept this and I am not talking about such a proposal. She told me to pay us everything we would need for oil, for energy, for medicines and from then on we would have to leave the Euro. "I do not accept any negotiations about this" I told her, "We will pass it and we will achieve it".

And with this Memorandum corrected by Zappia, with the enormous sacrifices that the Greek people went through, we finally succeeded. Remember the end of '14. Remember how the economy was then emerging from the crisis for the first time from this sad precipice into which it had fallen. But in 2015 our government was overthrown. Tsipras, Kammenos, Golden Dawn and the three of them united like a fist threw us. And the historian of the future will never acquit this act of theirs. Because they struck Greece in its heart, not me, Greece. And so came the completely unnecessary Memorandum 3 of Tsipras - Kammenos, which took us back to the darkness from the beginning.

Question: I will insist on the period of the Memoranda, because we are still paying for their consequences. And beyond the numbers, the way Greek society experienced it was with the ENFIA, which was temporary at the time and became permanent, with the economy that was suffocating and has still not recovered, with the businesses that closed, with the young people who left abroad and remain there. For all of this or for part of it, do you personally feel responsible?

Antonis Samaras: Let me say it again. In the 2.5 years that I governed, I did not implement a program of my own. I had no self-reliance. That is how the people judged it and I certainly respect it. I governed with three parties initially and then only with Vangelis Venizelos' PASOK. It was not my choice, the people decided this in two elections. The citizens chose, they imposed a coalition government with their vote. This was the popular mandate, not my decision, and I honored the election result. And the country was governed with stability in the most difficult period of the post-coup period. I took over Greece in bankruptcy, in a Memorandum, I took over the Greece that you described. I did not bring the Memoranda. I fought to prevent them from coming. And when they finally came in 2010, I made the necessary revisions so that Greece would come out one hour earlier than the Memoranda. That's why I fought.

And I made huge reforms and reduced taxes against the Troika, like the VAT on catering. Everyone remembers that. In my days, I dropped it from 23% to 13%. And today it's 24%, please. That's why I said back then: "Every day I tear up a page of the Memorandum."

And then they slandered me. Who? Those who, instead of supporting the country to emerge faster from the Memoranda, as we had already started, brought a third Memorandum and even mortgaged the public property. Let me remind you that we are still mortgaged the public property of our country? The property of all of us? They mortgaged it for 99 years, please. 99 years! This is the work of Tsipras and his famous negotiation: to give everything, everything they asked of him, everything that I had not accepted. And today, of course, he talks to us about a “new patriotism”. Who? Mr. Tsipras. Anyway.

So it was then that my first major conflict with many consequences took place with both Merkel and Schäuble. And something else. In 2012, I ordered Staikouras to conduct a detailed study by the General Accounting Office of the State on Germany’s debts to our country from World War II, on the occupation loan. And the study was done. The findings were published. When? In December 2014. And this bothered Germany a lot, it bothered them a lot. So they were accusing me of saying “no”, while they gave everything to Merkel? The Tsipras-Kammenos government and those who supported it were the ones who really created this incredible final problem. This problem was heard both inside and outside the country.

Listen. I was working 24 hours a day. During the negotiations with our lenders and with Europe, I had eye surgery. I ignored my doctors. I went to these meetings myself. I lost my right peripheral vision. I hid it as much as I could at the time. I'm not saying this to be brave. But I'm saying this because I can no longer tolerate this character assassination. I can't tolerate any more lies. This burden you described was my own burden every day.

You mentioned ENFIA, but you forget that I received 5 taxes on real estate, plus the PPC levy on each house. The amount of money that was burdened on each taxpayer at the time was much more. I abolished all of this and we created a tax, ENFIA, because we also wanted the mapping of properties, something like a cadastral registry. I said that it would be temporary and that part of the ENFIA revenue would go to local government. I already reduced it during my government and I would implement my commitments. Today as we speak, ENFIA is still in effect. Neither Tsipras nor Mitsotakis abolished it. Why? Let's tell the truth.

I received a Greece in a memorandum, something that I fought passionately to prevent from happening. And you will ask me: was it possible? Could we have taken strict measures on our own and succeeded? Yes! We could! Recently, PASOK executive and top Simitis minister, Nikos Christodoulakis, publicly stated this. Our government fell in 2015 while Greece was emerging from the crisis of the Memoranda. Could the government have stayed and we could have managed it and then the elections would have been held on time with Greece outside the memoranda? Yes, it could have! Who admitted it? The former SYRIZA minister, Stathakis.

You know, there comes a time when the truth shines through. I didn't receive a throne, I received a cross, a Homeland that didn't have a single Euro. Yes, I had the burden as Prime Minister. Yes, I was sad about the children who, as you said, were leaving abroad. Yes. It was difficult to deal with people losing their incomes every day. But I received them. And I fought with all my might to end this nightmare an hour earlier. Did I succeed? In any case, all the data, all the numbers, all the economic indicators show this. I took over, listen, in 2012, a country with a 7.5% recession, the worst in the world, and I handed it over with 0.7% growth. I took over a 9.5% deficit and I handed over primary surpluses, in just two and a half years. Greece had already come out of the tunnel. Some pushed it back in. And believe me, calmly, after a while, History will judge us all objectively

THE MAJOR AGRICULTURAL ISSUE:

Question: You mentioned earlier about the fields that are sown with photovoltaics, you also mentioned the issue of our food self-sufficiency. So, let's go to the major agricultural issue, which came to the surface with the OPECEKEPE scandal recently. We would like you to tell us what your assessment is of the situation in this sector. What do you see?

Antonis Samaras: Look, what can I say about OPECEKEPE? When, Mr. Mitsotakis, you appoint someone as president whom YOUR minister, your minister of agriculture, expels and you immediately take him on as YOUR advisor for five years, until today, you want to tell us that you still didn't know anything? And we should have learned this news from the European Prosecutor? From Mrs. Kovesi? Isn't this a very serious institutional issue, a slip? So the European Prosecutor came and spoke about corruption that is killing Greece, and I don't want to repeat how she compared us to Greece. And I was surprised to see the government celebrating. Because she says, Kovesi said, that corruption exists in other states as well. What can I say? Some people have completely lost their souls, but also their logic. Is it a serious argument to say: "I am corrupt too, but so is everyone else"?

Let alone the amazing thing: is it possible to have six different presidents in OPEKEPE in six years? It seems like what can I say, they would have given seminars on the executive state in Maximou, Patelis, Skertsos. There is no other way to explain such terrible efficiency. And today everyone is on the streets, farmers and livestock breeders are justified in being on the streets, and protesting about the subsidies and compensations that they have not yet received. So agricultural policy and the food issue are the biggest problem, number 1. I am sorry for what is happening. The money from Europe should have gone to the legal beneficiaries and to no illegals. And the state had to qualitatively, not only quantitatively, qualitatively guide the agricultural economy with instructions for the products of the future, so that there is a qualitative upgrade in these products and so that there are exports with profits. And I will tell you something: Say that the producer or the livestock farmer received his normal assistance from the European Union. Is there extra money to give? You will give it to them, to them themselves and direct them to achieve exports, quality and advantageous prices. Not to give it to others who have no idea about agricultural or livestock production.

However, beyond our own incompetence, I will say it, there is also in Europe, in the European Union, unfortunately, conscious, for me, degradation of the agricultural sector with the responsibility of Mrs. Ursula Von der Leyen. Look what is happening. To me, the European Union seems to have decided to dismantle the Common Agricultural Policy, because how else can I explain the proposal to reduce the amount for farmers by 25% in order to increase defense spending? Europe could increase the EU budget overall and it does not. If this finally happens, remember: It will mean persecution for farmers. I remind you, our agricultural, primary production has been the foundation of the European Union for 60 years now, 60! These decisions will lead to social and political chaos. I do not see these. Look at what is happening in the Netherlands. See how they react in France.

How will Greece negotiate the new CAP after OPEKEPE? Is anyone dealing with this? Have we formed alliances? Do we know exactly what we want? Or are we immersed in the scandal and its communication management only? I am sincerely sorry. I have been crying out for this nutritional issue for years. There is a conscious effort to degrade the agricultural world in favor of what we call “alternative product production” – new products, synthetic meat, insect proteins. It is an unacceptable narrative by the European Union, which has an enormous responsibility and which will lead the West to a major nutritional problem. But Greece is a rural country, historically. And we must at all costs support the farmer, the Greek farmer, the Greek livestock farmer, the Greek fisherman, our self-sufficiency, our strength, so that we do not reach the point of importing fish from Turkey that are unfortunately caught in Greek territorial waters. And I unfortunately see the nutritional crisis in Greece growing. Look at what is happening in our livestock farming with smallpox. Greek livestock farming is close to extinction and I do not see the government addressing the issue. And with the vaccine, no one has really figured out what's going on.

A LITTLE ABOUT ALLIANCES:

Question: You talked about alliances, so I would like to ask you about one of them, our most powerful ally, the United States of America. How do you see the current relationship, how do you see the new government of the United States with President Trump at its head, and do you possibly have, do you know him personally, do you have relations with the new government?

Antonis Samaras: I have never met Donald Trump himself. However, I have relations with people from his staff. Trump is a special personality. He seems to operate outside the conventional framework. He brought back to energy the particularly important value of hydrocarbons for us. He attempted to shield his country's borders from illegal immigration, which had taken on enormous proportions, as is happening today throughout Europe. He overturned the disastrous policy of the woke agenda for the West. It is taking internationally important initiatives, such as the recent agreement on the Gaza Strip. What will ultimately be achieved remains to be seen. However, at the level of ideas, it is true that I have a common understanding on a number of issues. Take for example the woke agenda, for some of them, such as immigration and energy, I have spoken in Greece and Europe about this since 2009.

REGARDING OUR NATIONAL ISSUES:

Question: Let's go to our national issues, on which you have taken a position many times, directly, and according to a statement by the government, it was also the reason for your expulsion from New Democracy. We see that the former president of New Democracy and former Prime Minister Mr. Karamanlis, as well as Mr. Valinakis and other internationalists, agree with the positions you have taken, and we gradually see in the major media, in the so-called systemic media, more and more experts and journalists joining these positions now. How does this make you feel?

Antonis Samaras: Look, things are really simple. How can this criticism that you are saying not intensify, when we were even afraid to lay the cable in Kasos? That is, in our declared EEZ. And when Turkey, pay attention, announces its own cable with occupied Cyprus, the illegal part, the pseudo-state, and we do not say a single word. And when he mocks us, even Libya mocks us, which signed the illegal Turkish-Libyan memorandum with Turkey in 2019, and we continue to unabashedly wash Turkey away internationally, which Turkey also took the Eurofighters, found it with England, with Spain, but also with Merz's Germany, while, look, Merz belongs to the European People's Party that we are and with which the Prime Minister had met. The previous one was not in our party. And all this with the consent of Italy and Spain. In any case, it is an oxymoron, these countries of Europe that are fighting for justice and democracy in Ukraine, to sell weapons to the invader and the trespasser of Cyprus, Turkey. And I do not see Greece shouting this.

When I called for the expulsion of Gerapetritis, I did so with my only criterion being my homeland. At the time, Mr. Gerapetritis had stated, "let them call me a loser." However, such a public statement by a Minister of Foreign Affairs is prohibited in politics. It is prohibited! Dot. And recently he declared to us that he is also a philhellene. Well, honestly, this is beyond me. So, how can almost everyone not agree with me today, when the Greek Minister of Foreign Affairs visits Haftar, shakes hands with him for a photo, and then, a day later, the pro-Turkish view of Libya is published at the UN? When Mr. Gerapetritis embraces warmly in good cheer with Tatar? I remind you that until yesterday he was the so-called "leader" of the pseudo-state. Isn't this a second bow? And to a pseudo-prime minister, too? These things are unacceptable. Because politics, whether the government likes it or not, is also the management of symbols. Symbols that in Greece symbols count. When hours after the Gerapetritis-Fidan meeting, Erdogan declares that occupied Cyprus will forever be the property of Turkey? When at a time when Skopje has written on its old shoes even the despicable Prespa Agreement, Gerapetritis comes and wishes: "at least this agreement will be respected"? And especially at a time when Bulgaria, with a veto, achieved the abolition of the so-called Macedonian language that the Skopjeans are usurping, while we sleep? When Egypt, did Egypt even provoke us with Mount Sinai? And there are very strange things happening there with the property regime. And I live here. When Egypt proceeds after 13 years with joint military exercises with Turkey?

As Prime Minister, I personally fought, a great fight, and achieved the so-called tripartite, Greece-Cyprus-Egypt, as well as Greece-Cyprus-Israel. And I cannot understand this Greek aphasia today, to say nothing else. When, above all, we have a Turkey that while imposing a fait accompli in the Aegean, while illegally occupying half of Cyprus, we are washing it away internationally with the friendship pact? What is Greece's argument to friends and allies against Turkish provocations, at a time when we ourselves say that we are friends with Turkey and sign friendship pacts? Isn't this absurd? Is there fasting kokoretsi and I didn't know about it? And with the constable and the gendarmerie? It's not possible. When we are then completely absent from Syria, where there is talk that there may soon be two more autonomous states, or statelets if you like, of the Kurds and the Druze? Where we have a historical bond with the Christian population? What are we doing about it? Where are we? Who are we talking to? Are we talking to them? When Israel and Cyprus are still waiting for Greece to strengthen the so-called 3+1 cooperation, which also includes America, with all that this entails, where are we? When, when, when, when... What should I remember first?

And I want to hope that the recent revelations about secret agreements between Gerapetritis and Fidan and official factors leading to a Finlandization of Greece are not true. I do not dare to believe what was written: that the Minister suggested to the Prime Minister the withdrawal from the UN of the Greek clause that the Hague Court does not have jurisdiction over issues of national sovereignty, that is, the demilitarization of the islands and supposedly gray zones. Be careful, the Hague Court does not have such jurisdiction. It was, I remind you, the last move of my government, together with Venizelos, in January 2015. You will tell me here that Mr. Gerapetritis had declared in 2024, last year, that the relationship between Turkey and America is indifferent to us. But is it ever possible? And when is that? When there is a vigilant Greek lobby in America, which has been fighting for many years now to prevent Turkey from acquiring modern weapons systems.

I do not accept that Greece is about to clash with our Cypriot brothers over the cable. I do not accept that the issue is economic. This issue, let them understand, is national. In other words, the Greek government is taking care to improve its communication with Turkey and is going to ruin its communication with Cyprus? Sorry, for 25 million? And if 500 million were the amount, let's find it. I do not know if you understand, we are talking about the interconnection of Europe-Asia through Greece and Cyprus and then Israel. Nor do I accept that we have forgotten to talk about the Turkish invasion and occupation of Cyprus, which should be THE prerequisite for any of our diplomatic move. Especially today when everyone is talking about the case, the corresponding one, of Russia and Ukraine. I hope some people understand what I am implying and what I told you means for diplomacy and our foreign policy.

And I will tell you in Greece, where unfortunately no one dares to speak: about our Thrace. The Turkish consulate in our Thrace is being threshed, while the Turks are buying thousands of houses through companies. The Turks are making Bulgarian companies, Turkish-Bulgarian ones. When I was once Minister of Foreign Affairs, I expelled the Consul General of Turkey in Thrace, in Komotini. And it didn't open a nose. But at least we showed then that we know what the Turks are doing and that we can react. While now...

Take the other thing. Months ago, New Democracy indirectly but clearly supported the election of Tsipras as President of the Council of Europe Subcommittee on the Western Balkans. That is, also for Skopje. That is, I will say it as I feel it: they put the murderer back at the scene of the crime. So, what do they want? Should I not say all this? Don't these views that I am expressing belong to the New Democrats? I would say to you more broadly, don't these views belong to the entire Greek people? That is why I am extremely worried today.

Here, the Prime Minister stated on some television some time ago that Greece is not discussing with Turkey its national sovereignty. That is, about the six miles. We missed that. Would a Prime Minister ever discuss national sovereignty? Is this an argument? Is he serious? But our sovereign rights, that is, after the 6 miles, the 12 miles, are implied to be negotiated? But Mr. Mitsotakis can be sure that this is how many people inside and outside Greece interpreted it. In two words: This is the mentality of appeasement. In the end, you will achieve the exact opposite of what you seek. Because everyone considers you impossible, and while you dream of calm waters, you will constantly have storms. This is exactly what has happened. That is: a show of force, for example in Turkey in New York recently, with the cancellation of the Erdogan-Mitsotakis meeting. And the provocations continue. The Turks have now even remembered Piri Reis.

So let us ask ourselves, with this foreign policy, with being absent from everywhere and with appeasement everywhere, who are our allies left in the region? But also more broadly. With President Trump, the Greek Prime Minister does not speak directly. The individual irresponsibility that Mr. Mitsotakis demonstrated in the Biden-Trump election, and not only, damaged the interests of the country. And I heard him a few days ago, on the occasion of the debate on Gaza in Parliament, scolding Mr. Androulakis for how he dared to comment on President Trump. Who? Mr. Mitsotakis? Who has been accusing everyone for years of Trumpism, without thinking about what he says and throwing all his money at Biden? What can anyone say?

The fact that Greece and Cyprus were invited by President Trump to Egypt for the Gaza agreement is positive. But it is not due to our own actions. Alas, after all, they had not invited us for a case in our neighborhood, when they even called out Japan and El Salvador. Just as the Cyprus-Lebanon agreement on the EEZ is positive. But what are we doing? And it is not only that. Here, Mr. Mitsotakis has declared that we are at war with Russia, "we are in war with Russia". And a few weeks ago, the Russian representative, Zakharova, changed her line for the first time on the Cyprus issue and justified the Turkish invasion and occupation. For the first time since 1974. And for those who do not know, let me remind them that Russia has always been, I am only talking about the Cyprus issue, friendly to Cyprus. This is a very substantial change of course.

But we have more. NATO Secretary General, Mr. Rutte. If possible. He asked the Cypriot President to help Turkey join the European defense program. He asked the Cypriot President for this. For the same reason, the German Foreign Minister is pressuring us today. So what role do we play in this Europe? What plan are we following? I doubt if they have even understood why England recently had a fight with Israel. These indications are not good, not at all good. This is called complete isolation, unfortunately.

And I would not like to take a position at this time, before we have the whole picture, on the five-party, which was an earlier proposal by Erdogan, which Greece had then rejected it. And now we are presenting it as a Greek initiative. What has changed? Fidan has already spoken publicly about staggered territorial waters. And Mr. Rozakis confirmed earlier similar thoughts that existed under Simitis, whose late Simitis, as you know, Mr. Mitsotakis admires. So the first indications are very worrying. The compromise is being promoted and sold as a supposed technocratic maturity.

I do not want to elaborate further. I will now only say the following: The Aegean and Cyprus have been the borders of civilizations for centuries. And the Aegean is not a common sea between Greece and Turkey. It is Hellenism. Here the West and the East are strategically clashing. Hegemonies, empires. Their control is crucial. If the new Ottoman state controls all of this, then it will fulfill its given revisionist and expansionist goals. Among other things, it will also control the wealth-producing resources. But listen, and listen carefully: Hellenism cannot tolerate new such diplomatic trivializations. Greece has enormous potential, but a new geopolitical strategy is required. I have been saying this publicly for years. The Prime Minister, of course, not only supports Mr. Gerapetritis, but he continues undaunted on the same line. Make no mistake, both have exactly the same opinion. And we actually experienced it. What followed? Instead of the Prime Minister putting the national interest first, he found in my criticism of Gerapetritis the occasion he was looking for, to complete the transformation of New Democracy from a party of principles to a party of owner. But no one's mouth, and not just mine, no one’s has the right nor can shut them.

THE RELATIONSHIP WITH THE NEW DEMOCRACY:

Question: What are your feelings today, after all this, about the party that essentially brought you to prominence, New Democracy?

Antonis Samaras: Listen, I was born in New Democracy from ONNED, from an MP at the age of 26, proud of the faction of Konstantinos Karamanlis, proud of the faction of Evangelos Averof. I served this party, New Democracy, and the core of New Democracy, meaning its code of values, with vigor. And when I disagreed with Mitsotakis’ policy on the Macedonian issue, this is well known, I then resigned as a member of parliament. It was a matter of conscience for me. That is, on issues, on issues of values, I never compromised. I made my effort with Political Spring, but within the framework of the party. When I later stayed out of Parliament, I never went to another party, to another party. Others have done this. I stayed at home for many years, but I never abandoned my party. And after all, I also proposed Kostis Stefanopoulos for President of the Republic at that time. And Kostis Stefanopoulos was one of the best Presidents.

And when Costas Karamanlis was elected President of New Democracy in the 2000 elections, I immediately closed the Political Spring, called on the people to vote for New Democracy, to support it, and I did it selflessly. And the New Democrats know this and let me tell you that they recognized it. In 2009, 800,000 people elected me from the first Sunday, leader of New Democracy. And it is my honor to be the first elected President of New Democracy from the base of New Democracy. And when in 2015 we were thrown by this miserable, unnatural political alliance of lies, that is, from Golden Dawn to Mr. Kammenos, Tsipras, etc., when they threw us out of the government, I systematically handed over New Democracy with a percentage that had lost, mind you, during this entire uphill climb that we went through, only 1% from the previous elections. We got 28% and 1,700,000 voters. In other words, I left behind a proud faction that had fought to save the country from bankruptcy and that had succeeded. As a transitional President with the aim of uniting the party, I then appointed, you remember, Vangelis Meimarakis. And then I supported the elected, the new one, Mitsotakis. And in 2019 and 2023 and in the regional elections. Everyone remembers who fought, who ran everywhere. Everyone knows this.

But I said and I say and I will say my opinion with my exclusive criterion always to help my country and the party. I disagreed, yes, on many things, but publicly, not underground. Disagreements, criticism and objections can only do good to governments, provided that those in power also want to listen and do not operate with other plans in mind. So I spoke at party conferences, I spoke in Parliament, I spoke in interviews, I identified mistakes, I warned, such as for example about same-sex marriage, such as for example the enormous trauma that had accumulated with immigration, such as for example about energy, such as for the number 1 problem of our place and nation, which is demographics, as well as for all our national issues. Was I wrong?

We fought alongside hundreds of thousands of New Democrats and for this we all fought, in both easy and difficult times, as allies. We know each other by our first names, very many of us. This was New Democracy for me: The party of ideas, values, the virtuous, the patriots, the homeowners, a popular party with its compass, however, a stable compass, Greece.

Unfortunately, this current ideological formation is no longer New Democracy. It has mutated. And it has mutated so much that a few days ago, in the 51 years since the founding of New Democracy, Mr. Mitsotakis did not make a single mention of the founder of the party, Konstantinos Karamanlis, in his speech. And I ask, is it possible? Not a single word? Are we only mentioning ourselves? Is that where we have brought the party? A line has been given from above, from the leadership, and they have all become a group without ideology. Sometimes without ethics. They are the ones that Menelaos Lountemis called "seat-warmers". Those who only care about keeping their chair warm and nothing else. All they care about is having their own party, but not a party with a President, like it used to be, not only by me but also by the other leaders, the previous ones. They want a party with an owner, with the only goal the power. They operate as if they were running a company. They only look at the numbers. They don't care about people, policies, ideas. That's why you easily remember what they used to tell me about the marriage of same-sex couples: One day they are with the dictatorship of the majority and the next day with the dictatorship of the minority. Whatever! In the name of power, not society, but of power.

And this mentality has made them arrogant. I saw the Prime Minister himself recently leave Parliament during a leaders' debate, saying that he did not have time to listen to everyone and answer them. In another debate, addressing a party President, he said: "Stop scolding." He often speaks of "patriots of the lentil and the sofa." These are all examples of arrogance and institutional indecency. And of course, anyone who opposes him immediately becomes a target for character assassination. Do you criticize? They accuse you of toxicity, disinformation, fake news. Do you disagree with something? They accuse you of undermining stability and they unleash an army of paid trolls on the Internet. And this is a sad picture. For me, it is a shame for the real New Democrats that today many of them abstain or are ashamed of what is happening in the name of the party. It is truly a great shame. Therefore, in two words, I feel proud of New Democracy and great sadness for the current party that is now New Democracy only in name.

THE RELATIONSHIP WITH KYRIAKOS MITSOTAKIS:

Question: While you are currently very critical of Mr. Mitsotakis, the Prime Minister, as you yourself said, you supported him fervently until 2023. So how can we interpret the deletion from one moment to the next? Is there some motive, some repressed desire for you to be nominated as President? Is there something we do not know behind this deletion?

Antonis Samaras: The question is correct, but you are asking the wrong person. And I will explain to you because you are asking me something contradictory. What kind of a spite does Samaras have against Kyriakos Mitsotakis? Who made him a Minister? Samaras. Who made him a parliamentary representative during the Tsipras-Varoufakis term? Samaras. Who firmly supported him for President of New Democracy? Samaras. Who was running all over the country, as you rightly said, during this entire period? Samaras. Not for him, for the party. Are you saying that I have some kind of spite because he did not propose me for President of the Republic? And you answer yourself. So listen to why this does not stand up to any logic.

Katerina Sakellaropoulou became President of the Republic in 2020. And I was plowing Greece to support New Democracy in both the national and regional elections of 2023. Simple as that. What kind of strange reason is this? As for the current President, Kostas Tasoulas, I remind you that already in '24 at the War Museum I declared that I do not negotiate my ideas in order to take any office. And in the interview that Mr. Mitsotakis took the opportunity to write me off, I ruled out any candidacy of mine and proposed as the more correct choice for President of the Republic Kostas Karamanlis before Mr. Tasoulas was even proposed. So Samaras was and is clear and crystal clear.

But let's tell the whole truth. From the first moment I publicly opposed wrong political choices. Since 2021, I have repeatedly spoken about the wrong foreign policy. At the party's Congress since '22, I spoke about the "riverization" of New Democracy. I spoke about Skopje, about mistakes. I publicly opposed the amendment to legalize all illegal immigrants without criteria. And then I was alone. I repeatedly criticized energy policy, that is, that we do not do mining. “I spoke about the price hikes related to energy.” I made admonitions, proposals, predictions. No one listened. I fought a very hard battle in Parliament and with continuous public interventions for the so-called woke agenda, for gay marriage. In vain. And when I spoke in Parliament on this issue, before Mr. Mitsotakis expelled me, he had given, if possible, an order to as many MPs as he could to leave the hall and not to sit on the benches to listen to me. I have been an MP since 1977. No leader in any party had ever done such a provocative act of shame, no one!

So I fought all these years for what every responsible and serious former Prime Minister and Party President should do. I fought for the country's foreign policy, which everyone except Mitsotakis and Gerapetritis now criticizes. In other words, I fought for the Homeland. And I fought to correct errors that were altering the party's physiognomy. In other words, I fought for the party. Mr. Mitsotakis, excuse me, is not fighting for the faction. He is not even fighting for the party. He is fighting to keep his own regime.

So the problem, make no mistake, is not that Samaras does not digest one or the other or Mitsotakis. The problem is that Mitsotakis does not digest the right, the center-right, nor the history nor the base of New Democracy. That is why he has turned it into a hybrid of Semitic PASOK with blue color. The difference therefore between Samaras and Mitsotakis is not personal. It is political and value-based. Samaras, in a few words, has no spite. Others seem to suffer from nightmares.

Question: From what you say, we interpret that there is no possibility of your return to New Democracy. Because we have been hearing lately about the so-called bridges, about phone calls, about meetings, about executives who have requested your return, a possible bridge. So we would like you to clarify this for us. Is there such a possibility?

Antonis Samaras: I did not leave to return. Mr. Mitsotakis deleted me. Pay attention, he deleted one Prime Minister even before the newspaper in which I had given this interview was even published. He was in a hurry. But for Mrs. Ferrari, Mr. Frape, Mr. Hasapis, it took them weeks to decide on their own deletion. It is the first time in the history of the party that a former Prime Minister and President of the party was deleted. And he made this decision supposedly because he was offended by Gerapetritis. In fact, as I told you, he found an excuse to turn New Democracy into his own party.

What bridges are you talking about? I have not seen any sincere admission of error anywhere. For nothing. Mr. Mitsotakis is always right. And all the rest of us are always wrong. Either the cards are two, or it must be 62. Recently I heard the inimitable Mr. Marinakis turn around and say: "Of course, Samaras can come, but our foreign policy is successful and does not change." Are they serious? Does Mr. Mitsotakis expect me to apologize for my opinions? Which, after all, have been justified? Is he asking me to betray what I believe? To humbly apologize for my opposition to same-sex marriage? To say that nothing is wrong? So these are not called “bridges” in politics. They are called hypocrisy. Here, one of his own running-away MPs declared in the style of a vizier: “It is better for Mr. Samaras to go home.” Such hypocrisy, such arrogance.

But it is not just me. It is not just my deletion. Here he also blamed the foreign policy of Costas Karamanlis, which he offered to the Homeland and with the no to the Annan plan and with the no to Skopje and with the deconstruction of the foreign policy of Simitis, I mean Madrid and Helsinki, which, bad lies, opened the way for the gray zones in the Aegean. And fine, leave me alone. But he also attacks Costas Karamanlis? Are we children? We are not playing “you leave and you come”. We are politicians. So let Mr. Mitsotakis not make fun of the party world any more. He made his decisions, he will be judged by the Greek people and by History.

THE RELATIONSHIP WITH Mrs. BAKOYANNIS:

Question: On a similar topic, at the presentation of Mr. Stylianides' book, Mrs. Bakoyannis stated that she was devastated about your absence – we assume she said it ironically – and said that you will follow Mr. Tsipras' path and form a party. Do you have anything to comment on that?

Antonis Samaras: Okay, first of all, that did not surprise me. Dora has been constantly devastated since she lost the intra-party battle in 2009. As for who follows Tsipras, I see that Mrs. Bakoyannis and Mr. Tsipras are hanging out, taking pictures, smiling. I see that their positions on foreign policy, and especially in Greek-Turkish and Macedonian, are almost identical. But I will say something else: Does Mrs. Bakoyannis remember who exempted Mr. Tsipras from the preliminary investigation for Novartis? The moral, that is, the author of the conspiracy, so that we do not forget? Does she remember who exempted Mr. Tsipras from the bank recapitalization scandal? I am talking about the period of the first half of 2015, when the state's bank portfolio lost over 20 billion. She will not remember that. Just as it seems that she does not remember a party that she founded herself, but without resigning as an MP. A party that ran against New Democracy and which did not even enter Parliament in the first elections of 2012. She will not remember that. The party therefore does not need arrogant voices, but seriousness, consistency and respect for its history.

PANOS KAMMENOS?

Question: Would you like to comment on Mr. Kammenos's statement that if you form a party, he will return to politics?

Antonis Samaras: Now, indeed! Ask me another question.

THE DEMOGRAPHIC:

Question: Let's go, if you want, beyond party issues, to the major national issue, which is demographics. In your opinion, is there a realistic, practical solution to this issue before it's too late, and if so, what is it?

Antonis Samaras: Look, I'll come to demographics right away, but first listen to something. Unfortunately, there are many fools who see the solution to our demographic problem, which I emphasize is the first thing we have to face as a nation, there are many who see this solution coming with immigrants. And indeed with those who come to us illegally. When Biden was President in America and the political correctness lobby was dominant in Europe, the government, ours, loved illegal immigrants, helped NGOs, generously granted asylum and linked demographics with immigration and multiculturalism. Do you want me to tell you the numbers so that people understand what is happening? During my government, 2,500 positive asylum applications were granted. During the SYRIZA period, 40,500 were granted. And during the Kyriakos Mitsotakis period, 155,000. So what are we talking about? Almost zero returns for six years. The only exception was Evros, where the government reacted correctly and as required, otherwise we would have had an invasion. So big mistakes on immigration too, which they remembered of course as soon as Trump was elected. But they are addressing these issues piecemeal, without a comprehensive policy and without a plan. Just communication and constant back-and-forth. And back-and-forth here. And I ask, and I keep saying it: We won't be here. But in 50 years from now, it will be our children, it will be our grandchildren. Let everyone think about this. Because unfortunately I see that no one thinks long-term anymore. I keep saying it: What is happening in London, Paris, Amsterdam, Brussels? More than 50% of the residents of these cities are not locals. So here we should be ringing not alarm bells, but 112 in every house.

And I say in every house because our country, Greece, has historical, has deep social roots. And today the birth rate in our country is, do you know where? At 1.3. At a time when, just for our current population to remain as it is, mind you, not to increase, as it should remain, we need to reach 2.1. We are declining dangerously as a people, we are declining.

And so, on the issue of demographics, a national policy is required, far from ideological constraints. And bold solutions are required. The measures announced by the government are not enough. More is needed. I will tell you one thing: Exemption from income tax for every new mother for a period of 10 years, with income and social criteria. To have children, or to have the motivation, the financial security to have children.

Look, I will be honest. I believe that the Western family today, in the West, the entire West, is under persecution. The danger is now existential. The core of the systemic leaderships of the West believes that instead of strengthening the family, they should mutate it. This was the woke agenda. This was parent 1, parent 2, the 62 genders, which recently became with the kolotoumpa. The cost of rent, the unbearable living in the city, the artificial precision due to the abandonment of cheap energy, the war on Christianity in the name of political correctness, illegal immigration. All of this together has destabilized the classic family as we know it in the West. That is why a social uprising is taking place almost everywhere in the West. And whoever does not see it, does not want to see it.

Therefore, I repeat, 112 must ring in every house in Greece. We cannot, we do not have the right, neither historically, nor socially, nor humanly to change our country. Because Greeks make Greece Greece. We are Greece, we must remain Greece, as we know it and as we want it.

CITIZENS AND POLITICS!

Question: From all that you have described all this time and the difficulties of everyday life have led many people to abstain from the political process, to disparage the political system, the parties, politics in general. Do you consider this attitude justified, on the one hand, one part of the question? And the second, could you propose a solution, or rather an incentive, so that these people, the disappointed ones, can participate?

Antonis Samaras: Listen, I see it as two different things. Disappointment with the political system is one thing and participation in public life is another. And I start with participation in public life. Democracy as a model is based, if you like, on the right of all citizens to vote and be elected. It is the best political model. And it is not only a right, it is an obligation. Until a few decades ago, participation was mandatory. If citizens for any reason do not participate in public life, then soon there will be no democracy. See the practical example of the European elections. Only, listen to this, 40% of the people voted. And New Democracy was elected first with 28% and with just 1 million votes, the fewest in its history since 1974. What does that mean? It will mean that it was elected with only 12% of those who had the right to vote. Imagine something similar happening in national elections. There will be no popular legitimation. But with responsibility, I will say this, and of the citizens themselves.

That is why I insist on shouting to every Greek citizen who thinks with Greece in mind, that he must vote by any criterion. Select, vote against, if you think you have been betrayed, punish, but vote. Participation in public life is a prerequisite for democracy.

On the other hand, to come to the first issue. The disappointment of society with the overall political system is obvious. Why?

Because the system does not produce ideas and, worse, it is indifferent to the messages that ordinary people send daily. It is now like a kind of closed club. And its only concern is who will have power. In other words, it is a group of political professionals with their survival as a criterion. This is the so-called system. That is, professional, technocratic, managerial parties, without ideological differences. This is the image that the world understands today, that politics is something indifferent, something lifeless.

That is why throughout the West – this is not just a Greek phenomenon – systemic parties are being swept away. Look, for example, at what is happening today in the three largest and most powerful countries in Europe, those that were the backbone of the European Union: Germany, France, England. The once all-powerful parties that ruled are being dismantled.

Immediately after the 2024 European elections, I remind you that at the War Museum and in Parliament a little later, I said that the more communication is the only criterion, that is, the more ideas and policies are not produced but only management, the closer the total collapse of the political system gets. No one listens. When they collapse with a bang, they will probably understand it then. But today this is the reality, the one I am describing, like it or not.

THE DEMAND FOR SOMETHING NEW!

Question: Along with the disappointment that we said before that exists in society and with the distancing from the process, the electoral process, there is also the demand for something new. And this demand is massive. Do you think that this new thing can arise from the old?

Antonis Samaras: I hope you don't want me to talk about me, but I will tell you the reality both here and about what is happening abroad. Here is the old one for me. Do you mean in terms of age? So you are asking me if a person of a certain age can have useful ideas, radical thinking, a willingness to change, a view of upheaval? If you are asking me this, I will certainly answer that he can. As long as he is not morally and mentally worn out. In Greek politics, for example, after the World War, Papagos, post-politically, Konstantinos Karamanlis and Andreas Papandreou created the new, without being young or even young.

Abroad, the great renewals, the changes, were made by experienced politicians, not young ones. I am talking about De Gaulle, Mitterrand, Kohl, Reagan, and Trump in our days. On the other hand, young politicians literally ransacked a second-hand shop of ideas. In Greece, Mr. Tsipras was very young, but ideologically he looked, excuse me, like a mausoleum. Abroad, the same thing. The same can be said about a series of new politicians from Spain and Podemos to Finland and Sanna Marin, I dare say. So let's not have the discussion in terms of old-new. It's too simplistic. That's not how reality works.

Question: Many times the demand for this new thing comes along with the necessity to break with certain interests. Which can be economic, big interests, they can be communication, big media. What is your position on this issue?

Antonis Samaras: Listen, interests, and even big interests, will always exist everywhere. But how big they are and how much they influence the course of the country, is determined by politics. I mean politics sets the limits. Many times, yes, I will say it, politics should set them. With a popular mandate of course. And above all with a patriotic criterion, the patriotic interest with honesty and consistency. This is precisely, I believe, the anti-systemic position today. Personally, I do not have the slightest dependence on any big interest. It was also evident during my term as Prime Minister. Nor have I ever guided media groups. On the contrary, look to find these and see when I was Prime Minister most of them were completely against me.

Now, I believe in entrepreneurship, don't get me wrong. I believe in liberalism. I believe in freedom. I believe in the free economy. I believe in profit. I believe in economic progress. I believe in healthy competition. But I am against the monopolistic, if you will, uncontrolled economy. The state has a role in my model, it has a role. For example: non-Greek investments, east of the 25th Meridian, for us in areas that have particular geopolitical value, must be carefully examined in terms of their security. There is also a relevant European regulation since 2019.

Geopolitical relations have changed so much worldwide that the state must ensure its national interests in the economy as well. And I also believe in collective expression, in society. I do not believe that there are no collectivities but only individuals. Listen, I believe that there must be state interventionism. State interventionism that we have driven out with a theory of a neoliberal model. State interventionism especially in the unprotected, in the wronged and of course in the sick. There the state must see the injustice and cure it. And then and only then will the state be close to the citizen. The rest is, in other words to love each other.

THE DECLARATION OF 91+ PERSONALITIES:

Question: In recent times, your name has been discussed very often in relation to the declaration of the 91+ personalities and their request, if you will, to you and to the other former Prime Minister, Mr. Karamanlis, in essence for mobilization and, if we understand it correctly, for the creation of a party of power for the salvation of Greece, indirectly but clearly. What is your position on this declaration?

Antonis Samaras: Look, the first thing that really makes me, if you will, happy is that in essence there was a public statement of opinions by scientists and people with authority in their fields. What have we all been saying for so long? “Where is the spiritual leadership of this place?” That’s what we were asking. Is no one speaking? And some did speak. And that is essentially very encouraging. It is an optimistic note, because these people spoke publicly with knowledge of what would follow from the system: That is, ironies, ridicule, disparagement, and even threats.

Now, as for their findings, about the course of the country and the prevailing situation, yes, I agree. I agree with almost everything, and I have also expressed my position publicly many times. But do you know, what was the most essential thing? That these findings are co-signed by people from all political spheres. Something that proves that patriotism unites, not divides. And this is the strongest message that the 91 sent out. The most dynamic and the most anti-systemic message and the one that most disturbs the system and its well-known pens, who always react. And of course, it is a great honor that this entire, let's say, patriotic front thought of me as one of the faces for a, let's say, new beginning for our homeland.

WILL YOU HAVE A PARTY?

Question: So the big question: Will you form a party? Have you decided?

Antonis Samaras: Listen, all this time I have been reading and hearing various scenarios about me left and right, without me ever speaking about any of this. Samaras is forming a party, Samaras is not forming a party, Samaras is returning, Samaras is not returning, Samaras has made up with so-and-so, Samaras has made up with so-and-so, Samaras has made up with no one.

And not only that, they are also making me count in the polls. In other words, some people are paying the poll companies to count a party under my leadership, which does not exist. This party does not exist. And although it does not exist in the polls, I saw it reach up to 16%. Even a few days after Lena, I was reading left and right about my supposed thoughts, my political plans, my feelings and all these incredible things in such tragic moments for me. But why is all this happening? I think there are certain common findings and assumptions that everyone understands on the street, in everyday conversation, in what people say. And what do people say?

Firstly, that today's New Democracy, because it has mutated, has unfortunately taken the road to the rocks at full speed. It reminds me of what Melina Mercouri once said to Andreas Papandreou about the then PASOK: "President, we don't like you anymore".

And secondly, that patriotism and the ideas that I have expressed over time and with stability, have now become the majority in Greek society. After all, I suppose everyone can now see what is happening all over the world.

Thirdly, I told you earlier, Greece has entered the Post-Political Era of Post-Political Eras. Our homeland needs a new beginning, a new relationship of honesty, consistency, national and individual. A determined leadership, with a national vision, ready for ruptures, for changes, with knowledge and a return to politics, with battles of ideas and not with battles of management.

But it also needs a determined society for the rebirth of the homeland. A rebirth that requires will, stubbornness, effort, not easy solutions. Because we Greeks must rediscover our virtues, our collective values ​​as a society and introduce them into education. Only in this way will Hellenism be reborn. These are truths that everyone says. I am not the only one saying them. For me, yes, I know what is being said. Both those who support me and those who don't support me know and at least admit that I got through the difficult times, but without ever giving permission for inappropriate behavior. And that honors me.

But be careful: I am a politician who has conquered all the offices on my path, with my right and my wrongs. I reached the highest step, that of Prime Minister. Therefore, because I do not have such needs, my motivation is not personal ambitions or vanities or childish ambitions. And of course, I also have within me my great pain for my child. It is not easy for me at all. I am a human being, I am not a machine.

But I also certainly have within me a sense of national duty. So I weigh the whole situation with great care. I follow everything. What happens inside and outside the Homeland. I will judge with composure. And when I make my decisions, whatever they may be, one way or another, I will explain them clearly and unequivocally to the only constant ally of my path for almost 50 years: the Greek people. I owe it to them. But don't expect me to tell you a yes or a no today.

Acknowledgements: Thank you very much for granting me this interview, for your answers, for your time. It was an honor.

 Αρχική      Επικαιρότητα      Περιεχόμενα ΕΛΟΚ / WKF .